An Interview with Temie Giwa-Tubosun

From the Editor: Temie Giwa-Tubosun is one of the many young ladies in Nigeria working hard to change things in our health sector. Instead of just ranting about the poor state of our health sector from far away “in the abroad”, chomping down on her proverbial Big Mac and maxing out her credit card (like so many of us are wont to do) she came back home to put down roots and DO something about it.

During her interview we talked about the north, the perception of people about women from that part of Nigeria, maternal mortality and best of all she talks about the fact that the oturkaporkpor you’re planning to put in your lover’s food MIGHT-JUST-WORK!

Read on:

9jafeminista: In your article you talked about trying on different kinds of feminism before deciding to tailor one to suit you and in the same breath you talked about returning to Nigeria

Would you say that feminism brought you home?

Temie: I believe a struggle with identity brought me home the first time and a commitment to what I found, when I came the first time, made the final move possible and perhaps even easier.

I came home in 2009 deeply confused about a few things, the question of God and agnosticism, feminism and how lipsticks and high heels fit into all that, what I was going to do with my life and etc. When I got home (I lived and worked in the North for a few months) I found myself, at least a version that has lasted so far… Oh dear, that sounds so clichéd but it is true. I found a version of myself that I was comfortable with and that made me come home finally 3 years later.

And that included a feminism that I was comfortable with.

So I think I find that Nigerian women paid attention to how they look and there doesn’t seem to be any conflict with their femininity and feminism, especially in the North. The women I met in Kano and Jigawa, I know they aren’t the norm so I might be a bit biased, were all lovely but strong and ready to change their culture and I wanted something similar for myself.

I had a colleague whose hijab always matched her jalabaya and her nail polish but she spent her weekends counseling HIV positive sex workers in the slums of Kano. Giving them tools that will help them lead easier lives. I have lost touch with her she had a great deal of influence on my life. I remember that her spouse wanted to marry a second wife at the time and the great conflict she felt and her determination to find a better way remained with me and allowed me to create myself and perhaps consolidate my feminism and femininity into a real whole.

 

9jafeminista: Was the first three months you spent in the north your first time ever in Nigeria?

Temie: Oh no. I left Nigeria when I was much younger, it was my first time in the country as an adult.

Random picture of Temie reading on the road… who does that?

9jafeminista: I’d like us to talk about Northern women. The single story about then is that they are a bunch of oppressed women who do not work. They are usually uneducated and at married off early… What is your impression about them? Would you say these assumptions are untrue?

Temie: My impression is a lot more robust. I lived and worked with them for a few months and helped to deliver services to a lot of them in the rural areas.

They are like most people, complex. Some are brave and willing to spit in the face of tradition and culture. Some are quite fine with the patriarchy and just want to be left alone and some are the gatekeepers of the patriarchy. A lot of them I know struggle with polygamy, many of them are professionals, and many are independent.

I was lucky to meet women from different socioeconomic classes. I met professional women, seasoned executives and small business owners. I met high level civil servants and rural women who are living in horrid poverty.

For example, my dress designer had a huge shop in suburban Kano and had about 5 men who were her tailors, she employed them and made their lives possible. I also met a woman who had been in labor for a few days and who was so poor that she couldn’t get to the hospital and was going to die.

I think that’s the interesting thing about travel, it forces you to see people clearly and yanks away the comfort of the single story brings.

9jafeminista: We know you’re running a not-for-profit project can you tell us a little about it?

Temie: Access to clean, safe, blood is incredibly hard in Nigeria and this affects women significantly. Hemorrhage after delivery is the second highest cause of maternal mortality in Nigeria. Almost 25% of child mortality can be traced back to lack of clean safe blood. Blood transfusion still accounts for about 10% of all new HIV cases in Nigeria. It’s insane. One Percent Project works to provide clean, safe, and affordable blood for the people who need it the most.

9jafeminista: So what are the advocacy tools you use for your project?

Temie: We sponsor blood drives in higher institutions. We are in the middle of a 2 day blood drive in OAU and we have collected almost 2,000 pints of blood – that is 6,000 lives saved. We are in the process of completing our app that will connect donors to recipient in emergencies and many more tools in the pipeline.

9jafeminista: You’re doing amazing work! Well done Temie!

Temie: Thank you, 9jafeminista.

9jafeminista: As you well know we’re very irreverent at 9jafeminista. Can you tell me what you know about oturumapokpor aka love potion aka efo?

Temie: Laughter … Well I have never used it and to my knowledge it hasn’t been used on me.

Will it work? It probably could… I mean there are drugs that enhance and changes moods to a significant level and we all believe in their efficacy… right? So, why not oturumapokpor?

Oturumapokpor is probably a drug that enhances the dopamine level of the drugged… Methinks.

9jafeminista: Does that mean you believe in the existence of witches? Actually the question occurred to me when you said in your article that nobody seems to be able to explain why maternal mortality rates are so high in Nigeria… Witchcraft?

Temie: Well. Witches are probably people who learnt to pay attention to instinct and could thus predict certain events. Witch doctors were probably folks with extensive knowledge of the natural world (herbs / lotions / potions ) and over time can create concoctions that saved lives.

I think we really just aren’t paying attention to why we keep burying thousands of mothers.

Is this what a Feminist looks like?

I have been a feminist since I was 10 years old.

I have loved my older brother since I can remember and he was a magnificent boy and an even greater brother. He was strong, smart, and swift. I followed him around and was sure I was going to be just like him.

It was cute, until I was 10 and the world told me I could not be like my brother in subtle but important ways. You talk too much, why do you think you will be president of the world… they will ask.

I was outraged and decided they were wrong and that I was and could be all that my brother was and would be. That was the beginning of my feminism and I imagine that there are millions of little girls who come to feminism much the same way. A male figure whom they loved and wanted to be like and the world who insisted they were less because of their vaginas and ability to bear children.

I believe this sense of injustice is natural during the innocence of childhood but on the road to womanhood, many of us are taught out of it. We learn to exchange this sense of injustice for an acceptance of patriarchy and a womanhood and motherhood that diminishes all we are and could have been. Many even learn to become the defender of patriarchy, essentially voting against their own interest, in exchange for useless accolades as perfect wives and best mothers.

As a 10 year old, I did not have a name for outrage about how my world was ordered until a decade later, in a women’s study class in a little state university in Minnesota. I learnt about Elizabeth Cady Stanton and her organizing and a little bit of her racism, I learnt of Sojourner Truth and Sister Soulja and black feminism. I met bell hooks’s militancy and tried to accept it all and find a way to tailor all these feminisms into who I was and who I wanted to become. Also I was preoccupied with how Beyonce (the one I was truly enthralled with) would fit in all of this. I read and I learnt but it wasn’t enough so I came home.

I have written about what feminism means to me HERE so I will not rehash it but to state that feminism as it’s core argues for the equality of the sexes, as eloquently stated by Chimanmanda Adichie. I must mention that it doesn’t argue for equality in the outcome but a true equality in the opportunities presented to all of our children. Feminists, according to Sheryl Sandberg, will be happy when 50 percent of young women run our countries, businesses and religious institutions and 50% of our boys rear their children and run their homes. Which naturally means that 50% of our men will run our public sphere while the other 50% of women will still run their homes. Thus feminism isn’t about reducing men’s influence or hating men but it argues for an egalitarian system truly based on merit and helping all of our children, boys and girls, fulfill their potential.

The world is worse off when a deeply religious and fundamentally called to service girl is kept from leading a flock simply because she is in possession of a vagina. Likewise, when a boy who wants to nurture his children and dedicate his life to their wellbeing is told that he is weak or somehow less of a great man because of his penis. As a mother of a little boy and as one who was a little girl once, I want a world that is just and that allows myself and my son to be all that we want and could be without judgment.

The patriarchy has managed to build a deeply structural system that prevents a truly egalitarian world. There are so many systems that keep women from work or forces them into diminished roles that it will take quite a long time to unpack all of them.

Sexual assaults, female genital mutilations, real discrimination in the work place, unequal pay for equal work, are all some of the real world factors that keep girls back. The thing that I am most committed to, notwithstanding the importance of all the other factors, is reproductive justice, which in my understanding includes maternal care and yes, access to health care that allows women to control their reproduction and choose.

Millions of women get pregnant every year; many of them are giddy and ecstatic over this blessing, many of them give birth to beautiful children and launch lives filled with the most intense love and a deep sense of accomplishment. I am one of them and my little boy is an incredible blessing, one that I am deeply grateful for. However, millions of women carry children they do not want to bear and are severely worse off physically, financially, and emotionally because of their pregnancies. Many more, who might want these children, or not, lose their lives through this process, leaving behind little children without mothers and full lives of their own. This injustice, this senseless loss of life and self-determination, should be unacceptable to us all.

Here are the facts: Each year about 34,000 to 54,000 able-bodied women die because of our horrible health system. I give you those numbers because we actually do not know why these women die. Yes, Nigeria, a middle-income oil rich nation, does not know how many mothers she buries each year. And if she does not know how many, how will she know why and if she does not know why, how can she stop this horror.

This I find incredibly outrageous and unacceptable. So from a deeply personal outrage when I was 10 years old, I find that my feminism is now rooted in the defense of female lives. It seems to be that before we must argue for equality, we at least must ensure survival of those who will be equal.

Temie Giwa-Tubosun

From the Editor: Our contributor and gravatar for this period is Temie Giwa-Tubosun.

Temie is program manager for the GIST project of Nollywood Workshops. She has worked with the Lagos State Government as operations manager for the Office of Facility Management and Maintenance, and as a research support fellow with the health systems financing team at the World Health Organization (WHO) in Geneva, where she managed the health expenditure reports for all WHO member states. She has interned for the Department for International Development (DFID) supported program Paths2, worked for the UNDP and Colombia University funded Millennium Development Village in Ruhiira as health system quality improvement coordinator. She is also the director of the One percent Project, and organization aiming to harness the power of young people to improve health service delivery in the Nigeria. She is a member of the Global Health community with the Global health corps organization and writes for various publications, including the Impatient Optimist Blog of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

We will be talking maternal mortality, blood donation in Nigeria, being a feminist, love and women’s health.

In conversation with Ikhide: Lindagate, love and feminism

From the Editor: Plagiarism is a profession as old as time, at least that’s the impression one gets particularly in Nigerian cyberspace as bloggers ‘borrow’ (often and consistently) articles and photographs from other blogs or websites without attribution or payment.

Linda Ikeji and her Jeeeeep (culled from lindaikeji.blogspot,com)

Ms Linda Ikeji, a former model turned blogger made millions from her gossip and entertainment site which was getting over 500,000 hits per day. Ms Ikeji had been accused by several writers and photographers, of simply ‘copying and pasting’ stories and pictures from different blogs and websites without permission or even an acknowledgement.

Things, however, came to a head earlier this week, (after Ms Ikeji posted the picture of her latest expensive car on social media and had done some more copying and pasting on her blog) when, beleaguered writers and bloggers asked why she couldn’t pay for stories if she was making enough to buy an expensive jeep, they took it a step further by reporting her to Google (there are even rumours of a class action suit) and her blog was taken down.

9jafeminista however got interested in the story when a literary critic, human rights activist and cyberspace troublemaker, Ikhide Ikheloa joined in the fray, instead of calling for her head, as would be expected, Mr Ikheloa joined his voice to the multitudes DEFENDING Ms Ikeji’s actions.

Below is the interview conducted with Ikhide Ikheloa (you have to pardon his too much grammar):

9jafeminista: Why have you been defending Linda so loudly on social media? As a writer you know very well that plagiarism it’s a really big deal and as you’ve pointed out, you’ve also been a victim of intellectual property theft, so why then are you coming to the defense of a woman who built her wealth from other people’s hard work?

Ikhide: To be clear, I do not condone plagiarism, acts of intellectual brigandage and the notion that writers, especially Nigerian writers, should write for free. Indeed my position on this matter is best articulated by  Ayo Sogunro  and Mr Mobility.

I salute them for articulating their views on the Linda Ikeji saga with deep introspection and rare integrity.

What I am up in arms against is the rank hypocrisy and lack of self introspection by some of the major howlers. I detect class

” I detect class condescension and sexism in this issue” – Ikhide R Ikheloa

condescension and sexism in this issue. Where were they when the men of Premium Times garroted the credibility of Nigerian journalism for pennies? Some of them are in cahoots with Dele Olojede in the NEXT saga. They hurt many young people. Where were they when Chris Abani took Africa’s dignity to the cleaners for pay? Nigerian intellectuals protect their own.

The abuse many of us have suffered in the hands of pretend-publishers in Nigeria is well documented. I am owed thousands by NEXT. I am lucky; some people were not so lucky, no one has held them accountable because there are no accountability structures in Nigeria that work. If you need relief, count on external intervention. That is what happened in this case. Google took care of business. The characters in NEXT, Premium Times, etc. are still walking around giving us phony lectures about corruption in Africa. Some of them want to hang Linda. The hypocrisy is galling.

I adore Linda Ikeji. She is gutsy, brilliant and market savvy. She has survived the unnecessary roughness that stands for life in Nigeria and has made a name for herself. She also is a leader with more following than those of all the African bloggers combined. We should study her business model and use it to propagate our ideas instead of begging pretend publishers to publish books for us that only our relatives will pretend to read.

9jafeminista: There’s no denying that Nigeria is patriarchal, and there’s double standards whenever a woman is involved in anything considered scandalous. For example Ynaija, the Sun Newspapers etc are known for the kind of copying and pasting journalism used by Linda, they have been called out on several occasions by the linguist Kola Tubosun,

But like the case of Patricia Etteh, the first female speaker in the House of Representatives (who was later cleared of corruption charges leveled against her) while men literally get away with murder, a woman would be singled out for execution, if possible, if she plays the men at their own game and appears to be winning.

Ikhide: Exactly. Linda has done some sketchy things, but she is head and shoulders above the men that ruin Nigeria daily. She survived their dysfunction, a scrappy single woman, who found a way to tap into a hunger and make a real living from it. Why start with her?

I am disappointed that many did not see through the numerous self-serving agendas at play here.

9jafeminista: That being said should writers because of this ‘forgive’ her for stealing their intellectual property? Already there are rumors of a class action suit being brought against her and Ms Ikeji has not helped matters by going the way of corrupt Nigerians blaming ‘enemies’ and raining curses on them, instead of offering to make reparations, or at least offer an apology and start paying writers.

Have you been in touch with her? What solution are you proffering?

Ikhide R Ikheloa

Ikhide: Linda and I are not personal friends. We have never communicated privately, ever! I am in this on principle and because this one evening, to the chagrin of her haters, ML had sent me to the doghouse and I had a lot of time on my hands, lol! I rarely read her blog, but I know that she has half a million followers at the very least and unlike most Nigerian writers, she has parlayed that into money. I would love to have her problem.

What solutions do I have? Great question! I have been in the forefront, as you know, of vociferously demanding accountability from African intellectuals, they are THE problem. Those who want to lynch Linda Ikeji must learn to be consistent and honest. Do not look the other way when your friends, men by the way, do 100 times what Linda has done and then start writing preachy tweets when Linda does her own. More importantly, many of us actually make a living from the lack of accountability in Nigeria. We should join those who have been speaking up to force leaders to build these structures. Nigeria and Nigerians only listen when the Washington Post and Google bark. In the absence of accountability, you will not get any apology or reparations from Linda Ikeji, Dele Olojede, Premium Times.

There has to be a motivation for folks to behave. You see what happened with Basketmouth when we went after him? He apologized. Quickly. Who wan die?

9jafeminista: Because we are totally irreverent we need to ask one last question, two sef… Do you consider yourself a feminist? Do Nigerians fall in love?

Ikhide: I think the term feminist is fast becoming a pejorative, so I am reluctant to dump yet another label on myself. I consider myself a human rights activist and will fight to the death for the right of another human being to be human in all respects.

And do Nigerians fall in love? DSD What a question! Please release all the love poems I have ever written to you and make Neruda blush in his grave. Of course we fall in love. Right now I am on the rebound. Again. Free me, Olokun of my seas.

 

 

 

 

 

An Interview with Ugo Chime

9jafeminista: Can you tell us your major driving force?

Ugo Chime: I don’t know if I have a neat answer for this. When I was a kid, I hated how much I lacked even though I shouldn’t. I’ve already talked about my dad about my dad right? (check article here and here) And how he had money but he didn’t share it with his family. I hated that. I hated how little money my mom had. I hated how asking my dad for money (for what I considered necessities) turned into such big a production. How you had to beg and beg. Pray he was in a good mood, that he wasn’t fighting with mum, because if any of these conditions are in place, you won’t get a kobo.

I hated the begging. My god, I hated the begging above everything else! So I was eager to go out there and start making my own money, so I didn’t have to beg anyone for a dime. In a way, you could say that’s what has driven me, the phobia for being at someone’s mercy.

9jafeminista: mmmm

Ugo Chime: I want my own money. I never feel any money earned by my husband belongs to me, it’s his money, to do with as he pleases.

9jafeminista: Would you say you chose your career as a public health practitioner of your career chose you?

Ugo Chime: My first degree is in food science I wanted to do my masters in human nutrition, it was an aspect of food science I really clicked with, but after graduating from the university, I had to work, I was sick to death of begging my daddy for money. I was in a damn hurry to leave home for ever. I went to live with my sister and her husband, he’s a doctor and had an NGO. I started volunteering at his NGO, while looking for a job. When after 6 months I couldn’t get a job, he asked a friend of his whose NGO was more active, to take me on and pay me a salary, and that was how it began. Since then I’ve worked exclusively with NGOs.

Human nutrition was modified, with more knowledge, to an interest in public health nutrition, but it was rather narrow field. Besides, I became more passionate about women issues, maternal, child and newborn health (MCNH), I decided to focus on public health and as a wider field and health policy because I wanted to move from working with all these ‘oyibos’ who tell u what’s good for you, to working with national and state governments.

So, my big dream: to work with national and state governments in health policy, become a consultant to policy makers, get my PhD, maybe lecture…

9jafeminista: As somebody who has worked with several NGOs in Nigeria how would you rate their performance?

Ugo Chime: The international ones?

9jafeminista: Both the international and Nigerian ones

Ugo Chime: To be honest, Nigerian NGOs are far behind in what they could do, far behind, maybe that’s because I’m comparing them with UK third sector. There’s too much acceptance of the spoon-feeding by donors and the international NGOs, I would say it’s dismal.

9jafeminista: And what would you say about MCNH in Nigeria?

Ugo Chime: You know how bad our indicators are now, our maternal mortality rate is one of the highest in the world, we have a poor health system, we have the patriarchy, we have the poor proportion of girl child education.

9jafeminista: Would you say local NGOs are actually doing what they are receiving funding for?

Ugo Chime: They are, but that’s the thing! It shouldn’t be donors deciding what direction these NGOs should be taking. Of course there are others who aren’t serious, but these donors have strict accounting policies. So, when it comes to ticking off boxes, the local NGOs are doing it, Donor says train 500 men and women about the importance of hand washing, the local NGOs will bring you attendance sheet with probably 502 people trained. So, box ticked, but it doesn’t mean that’s what’s needed. It doesn’t mean that the training won’t die with the first set of people trained. That there is a trickle down effect.

It’s really for local NGOs to say, “No this is what is effective. This isn’t what will resonate with our people. Here and here ae what we really need.” That sort of thing

9jafeminista: Why can’t the local NGOs tell funders their methods are not effective?

Ugo Chime: They are doing it, just not on a large enough scale to cause a ripple effect. Not enough to get the donors to change their mode of engagement with the local ones. Right now, all the power is with big donors. They dictate the tune.

9jafeminista: If you were in a position to proffer a solution to the problems besieging Maternal Child and Newborns Health what would it be?

Ugo Chime: MCNH is complex, to be honest. It’s not like “he broke his leg, put him in POP, give the leg time to heal.” There are so many things contributing to the poor indicators. Things that aren’t easy to solve. We can say lets improve our health system. Let’s make healthcare for women and children free, because many women are poor. We could say make education free. There are so many things we can say would work but when it’s implemented it doesn’t, because new problems crop up. For example women don’t trust medical professionals, so make healthcare free as much as you like, but they aren’t going to come near a clinic. Make education free, but they believe an educated woman won’t get a husband, so they’d rather be illiterates.

9jafeminista: Would you say that there’s so much witchcraft going on that one could say it is the cause of the high figures in maternal and child mortality in Nigeria? This is because a lot of Nigerian women prefer going to churches or mosques, or through other spiritual avenues rather than hospitals.

Ugo Chime: I’d say the suspicion of witchcraft has been quite insane in leading to the death of many pregnant women. They refuse to seek medical intervention when things are going just awful during pregnancy.

They are going to prayer houses, pastors… whomever. Fervently believing someone is trying to kill them, that what is wrong is spiritual and so can be countered through spiritual means. Meanwhile things are getting worse for them, making it harder for medical intervention.

9jafeminista: Well, this can be due to the fear that medical practitioners are not spiritual enough to counter the attacks from the dark side.

Ugo Chime: I don’t believe in witches. I don’t believe in devil. I want to say I don’t believe in god, but am still undecided. I’m closer to not believing in god than in believing. So, the entire concept of witches is bullshit to me and I think people who believe in them are idiots.

9jafeminista: Would you say you don’t believe in winchis because you’re a feminist?

Ugo Chime: No. I know feminists who are Christians, who also believe in evil spirits, they may not think its exclusively in the form of females, they accept that evil can manifest as a female as well as male

9jafeminista: Who would you say has been the greatest influence in your life?

Ugo Chime: My father

9jafeminista: Please can you explain how?

Ugo Chime: Well, he’s a presence that looms over everything. Trying to escape him and his stinginess. Trying to fight his idea of how a ‘proper’ woman behaves. Marrying a man who is exactly NOT LIKE HIM! Trying to be exactly the kind of parent he isn’t, I dare say that till date I’m still trying to prove to him that I’m none of the things he used to say I am.

Forgiveness or Gini?

Editor’s note : Ugo Chime is a public health practitioner and policy maker. Aside from this she also enjoys writing in her spare time. In spite of being a self-confessed feminist (or maybe because of it) she is married (surprised eh?) to a Nigerian man (aren’t all feminists supposed to be bitter single women, or divorcees, …or widows?)

Anyway here’s her creative non-fiction piece on learning about forgiveness.

She talks about the way women are raised to believe that they are the ‘softer’ sex and had to learn to ‘forgive’ over and again,     especially when you’re married because men are ‘hard and heartless’ and there’s nothing you or anybody can do about it because they are … ‘men’.

Read Ugo’s piece, she might be able to teach you a thing or two about forgiveness.

Forgiveness or Gini?

One of the ways women are prepared for married life is the coaching on forgiveness.

You know, you would have a load of shit thrown at you by ‘dear husband’ and his ‘adorable family’. But a good woman keeps her home. You know … at all cost.

So, you need to forgive, forgive, forgive, and you could never start early enough in learning this needful skill. Whether you are fighting with your siblings, your classmates, your parents, hell… even strangers, your skill at letting go of anger, forgiving and forgetting… even if the offenders isn’t in the least remorseful… is expected [because you’re a ‘soft woman’].

Be sure someone will offer up a “ah ah, are you not a woman again? How can you be so hard-hearted?” if you go against ‘nature’ and let that your ‘soft, ever-forgiving heart’ linger on the hurt just one second longer than it was built for.

I suppose many a-woman has profited from this training. They have gone ahead to have wonderful marriages, with husbands who proclaim – ever so effusively- how their wives are the very embodiment of the woman in Proverbs 31.

I’m just not that woman, unfortunately. I don’t see the Association of Well Behaved Married Women ever having me.

I have, however, learnt forgiveness … from my husband. The man knows a thing or two about letting things go.

[My marriage] is not a perfect union. Last year, in fact, I considered leaving. Marriage felt restrictive, a tight noose around my neck and I desperately wanted to be rid of it. Then came to a decision that I couldn’t envisage a life without my man in it, hence I sat put. As with everything, I opened up to him about wanting out. He did not hold it against me – just like other countless failings of mine. I’m not going to list them – well they are not pretty at all. But he remains committed to me. He takes everything in his stride.

I believe there is nothing I could do that he would not forgive. I mean, even if I cheated… I know for a certainty that he would forgive it. It is going to hurt him, but he isn’t going to throw me out of the house (you know how they do it in Nollywood, right), or file for divorce or hold it over my head for the rest of our years together.

This is completely different from what I had been made to expect in marriage.

I am getting better at forgiving, at letting go. Well, because I have to share my pet peeves with hubby, and I know he’s going to say I should not bear things in mind so much. And I am going to get annoyed with him for telling me how to conduct my affairs. I’m probably not to going to him for a while. Then I remember how easily I can get forgiven, so perhaps I should not be so hard on others. And with some luck, my son is going to grow up to be like this father, then some woman would have a little bit an easier time in marriage as a result.